your feedback here [optional: your nick here]
Schedule
- would be nice if it would be available in ical format again
c3nav
- does not work with older (non ancient) browsers: Search input field does not show up.
External Lounge
- The external lounge did not have a hacker atmosphere.
- The lounge did not have enough seating.
- The Tschunks were of questionable quality. The lemons were not mashed and the amount of rum used was not consistent at all. In the PoC-Team we even had Tschunks without any noticeable rum flavor. Around 1-2am the crushed ice went out and cubed ice was used. At least the situation that you could not order larger amounts of Tschunks for Teams improved over the evening. Thanks for fixing that @PL <3
- We had the same experience.
- Going outside to get to the lounge/walking through radisson really killed my vibes. Actually I feel like even ignoring walking outside the vibes in the lounge were unpleasant with the feeling of it looking like a normal bar/having normal bar staff there (?). I like it when my friends serve me my tschunk. Overall I avoided the lounge thoughout the event due to all of this even though normally that's were I spend a lot of time.
- Another opinion: I felt it very good that there was more space which was not a "loud party" :-), and that the "loud party" was in a dedicated, externalised space.
- Also, the word "Lounge" does not really fit for this in my opinion, I think it should be called "Disco". "Lounge" is more something cozy, quiet.
- The dance floor was too small to fit that many people, which makes it hard to actually dance
- Having the club outside the actual venue was nice!
Design/Accessibility
- We should make the different levels each a distinct color. also the signs of the rooms and halls should be in a unique color for that level. the house is sooooooooo confusing.
- The writing on the ticket is not a font/characters but an svg. This is not screen reader friendly.
- A light theme for web sites and a respective section in the official style guide would be really appreciated.
- Dating should not be a wiki, people have a hard time using it, blocking the whole page for long times...
- Thanks for the report, we are tracking this further with this gitlab issue
- I fatfingered and deleted a DM before opening it and the notif bubble is still there xc
- It's very hard to read the tweets on the info beamer (at least on a smaller screen, e.g. a laptop) because the text is pretty small and cut off very often when the display changes, which doesn't make much sense to me
- The light artists have once again outdone themselves with the installation in the lobby
- Would love to see the angel badge having space to write the nickname on both sides
- Angel badge was not very good to read from further away
- Maybe do landscape badges for more writing space
- A pronoun field on the badge would encourage people to tell their pronouns
- I fully understand that the way to the lounge was partly outdoors to keep the fog out of the Hotel, but the routing from day 3 on where you could no longer enter the Hotel lobby directly, but had to use multiple ramps to get to the hotel lobby again, was really annoying for wheelchair users who stayed in the hotel
- There should be an angel at the lounge "Accessibility" Meetup point, instead of having to call someone for wheelchair access. At the last day, DECT was already down but the lounge had still open.
- there should not even be a need to get help from anyone for accessing the lounge with a wheelchair. I’m honestly disappointed that CCC did not follow accessibility standards here.
- The light in the toilets was too dark. some of them had one stall with normal lighting, which led to waiting lines for that one stall. Also, it's even very bad that the people who didn't mind the darkness, because their worse hygiene will lead to dangers for the ones who have to mind these things.
- Too many of the big spaces were not suitable for people with sensory sensitivity, especially noise: Hall H, whole Hall X, Y and main entrance area, and often Hall 3 all had music going on (main entrance area starting in the evening). So I and also others from my assembly were pushed away from staying at the assembly (in Hall 3; we actually deliberately asked for a place without insonation ("Beschallung"), maybe the assembly team was not aware that "Hackers Beauty Palace" insonates Hall 3).
- For accessibility (having enough space were sensitive people feel comfortable enough and still can meet and interact, e.g. not having to retreat to a dedicated quiet area which is not inclusion since it is not general space), I propose to have a few dedicated spaces, and only one of them a big hall, which are insonated. I think Hall H is "natural" for this since it anyway has a louder atmosphere. Other spaces, take smaller rooms for that if necessary (Hall 4).
- There were no wheelchair accessible tables in the food area
- Some services were not accessible for non-German speakers. This includes some signs at the fashion operations centre
- It's nice, that most signs were in english, but since there are still a lot of people not fluent in that language, they should have also been in german.
Hub
- 🏅 What about enabling badge creation also for individuals and/or self-organised projects? Could imagine some cool games, challenges, scavenger hunts, micro-ctfs, and so on! 🧐 🏃➡️ 🎯 - Ben
- 🌎⛓️💥 The "globe" button in the lower right corner here in the hub seems to be broken!? Redirects me to a 404 when switching to english. - Ben
- Thanks for reporting, I opened a gitlab issue for it.
- Searching for usernames, searching for things in user's profile pages. User profile pages also can't be tagged. Can't create projects as an individual. All this makes it quite hard to network beyond assemblies / existing projects. - clonejo
- Striking-through text in the markdown view does not work and is only shown as <del> (at least on the devices I tested). Examples can be found in Hardware seeks Creature and Merch seeks Hacker tables on the Dating page. ~cz0
- Thanks for reporting, this should be possible now (reference: https://git.cccv.de/hub/hub/-/merge_requests/1192)
- In the Badge section automatic links to 38c3.c3nav.de would be super helpful - Carla
- Thanks for that idea, we are tracking this further with this gitlab issue
- Sent messages only show oneself as the sender, rather than the recipient
- Some sort of DM notification would be great
- I was missing a Table of Content (TOC) feature, would have helped with the Dating page and other longer pages. Additionally, being able to sort the date column would have been nice, since the order was all over the place
- Thanks for the suggestion, I added a gitlab issue for it to the hub project
- the bulletin board was pretty useless since it’s not possible to search through it.
- there should be an iCal feed for favourited talks/sessions that I could import to my calendar, similar to the “my shifts” iCal in Engelsystem
- You can copy the link of the iCal download button in your profile edit page here in the hub - it will contain all your favorit events (this was added during 38c3 and was not available before)
- Does the hub search cover https://events.ccc.de/congress/2024/infos/network.html etc? If not, this should be changed. These two spaces should not simply co-exist.
Assemblies
- Many assemblies remained among themselves and were not very inviting/outgoing to others. A big hurdle for shy nerds.
- i talked with Marc from the assembly team about this, and he told me to provide feedback in written form. As we arrived on day 0, we generally were told "space is a premium, everyone only did get half of what they asked for". That in itself is not really a problem, we are totally fine with more assemblies, and we understand the "more assemblies" need space. What i do not really get is, that we registered the assembly in advance and provided great detail about what we want to do and how much space we need. We did not get any feedback that space might be tight. We said, we want to build a small lounge. Nobody told us, that there will not be space for that, nor that there already is an "official" lounge planned nearby. Because we did not hear back from the assembly team, we had to assume, that we will get everything we asked for. Therefore, we loaded so much stuff and drove it almost 700 km, just to realize that it has to stay in the cars, because there is just no space for it. A simple one week advance, that we only get half the space and that the lounge is not going to happen would have saved us so much unnecessary work and effort. So maybe, the assembly team can respond to the requirements in the regstration of the assemblies with at least a two liner email on what will not be possible. – MikO, Maschinendeck e.V.
Sustainability
Please bring back the Sustainability Track at 39C3 with more climate and sustainability related talks and topics. From my point of view, this can't be seen as an optional feature any more, also because it is a big threat to human rights and democracy as well. Waiting till the next Bits and Bäume in maybe 2026 is far too long. And also, if we just seem to give up on this because other things may seem to be more important right now, it can and probably will be seen as a signal of weakness, so that the political right may be successful with their agenda; but I think we should rather signalize strength instead, like we won't back down, not even one inch, and we also won't sacrifice important topics that might not look that urgent to some people right now (as it does most of the time anyway regarding certain topics) From both sides, I think we should not give up on it, and not only because we cannot afford to do so. The Sustainability Track at 37C3 really was GREAT and giving hope, and I am really missing it, and therefore looking forward to seeing this going on and develop in the future, also because it can bring great people together (and they don't like fascits either, so we probably can reach even more when working together)
So let's reach to the stars together, spreading hope and love, and hopefully also peace in the end... Thank you.
-
Please provide some water taps for bottle refillment. Big bottles do not fit in the sinks on the toilets.
-
there was no attempt to recycle paper or plastic (except for the CCH trash cans that were already there)
-
the first step towards more sustainability would be to not use the buzz word "sustainability" anymore. It is an outdated and hypocritical concept.
Internationalism
The main topic of this year, as expressed in the Opening Ceremony, was the rise of fascism. That isn't only a German issue, not even European, but a global one, and as so it should be dealt with. Even understanding why the glossing over the whole Middle Eastern issue, concern expressed with more depth below, is quite striking the complete absence of America, both north and south, ok not wanting to talk about Trump, but fascisms are raising also in the south, and maybe their struggles there can help to better inform our praxis here; and also Asia and in particular China, where I am sure a lot can be said about the relation between totalitarianism and technology, what happened to the whole hype about Hong Kong of few years ago?
Card payment at venue
Implement card payment with German and international card schemes (e. g. girocard, Mastercard, Visa, Dankort, maybe TWINT) at the bar and where to get food. Card payment was possible at Gulaschprogrammiernacht as well as MRMCD 2024, so we could ask for their experiences. Although privacy and "not leaving data somewhere, where not needed" is a main principle of Chaos events, modern payment and using digital tools is also more and more popular in our society. It would be mandatory to have cash as payment method, so cards shall not be a replacement, but choice.
- this would most likely result in the prices going up even more, as there still is no regulation on transaction fees in germany.
- I highly doubt offering card payment would necessarily increase the price of items sold on site: GPN is paying a fee in the 0,89% range with an offer to lower it even to 0,79% - and that is for an event that decidedly has less throughput than Congress. So we are talking worst case about 5 Cents on a 5€ Tschunk. That is very much in "doesn't matter"-territory and in line with how much "Bargeldentsorgung" is costing. It has been stated in the past by PL that they will not allow card payments for idealogical reasons and that it will stay that way, because we do not want Wau spinning in his grave.
Food choice
- There were relatively few food options (e.g: no gluten free), in particular fewer stalls compared to last year.
- Angel kitchen was amazing +2
- Unfortunately for some meals the allergens were not labeled (or I was not able to find it)
- Sometimes there were vegan/vegetarian lines, sometimes not that confused me
- Small piece of TK Pizza for 6.5€, not really my favourite. I know the venue has something to say. But please look for a better solution. It's annoying to have to go some mile for good food.
- Especially vegan food options were not exactly stellar: Overpriced and boring. What about a community driven soup stall next year? As far as I'm aware it should be possible as long it's outside of the cch?
- The menus were only in German, which made it sometimes complicated to order
- a non commercial / self organised feeding interface was missing.
Schedule / Fahrplan
- Many talks in the schedule are written exclusively in German, even if they are provided with an English translation. Could an English translation be provided at future events? A solution from a translation service would certainly be a good thing.
- For the hub, schedules, and other places where times are used: The day change being way after midnight is totally fine, but please make the times be e.g. 25:30 instead of 1:30
- What if: 1:30 (+1) or 1:30 (Day X)
- the (+1) could be confused with timezones, 1:30 (Day X) is basically what we have now, isn't it? 1:30 (Day 2) is 1:30 on the calendar day which is actually going to be Day 3 later for the most of the calendar day. "Day 2 25:30" would make it obvious that it is in the night that is the continuation of Day 2, and it is a format that is used in many contexts internationally for various tickets and schedules (look up 30 hour time format)
- Thanks for the feedback we are aware of the issue around this topic and are tracking it in the issue GitLab #663
- What if: 1:30 (+1) or 1:30 (Day X)
- It would be really helpful if the Fahrplan app could be linked to the Engelsystem to see during which talks you have registered a shift.
Content
- Thank you for keeping the schedule (mostly) clean of Julian Assange and other adjacent fascists, wifebeaters and rapists this year.
- media.ccc.de: please make clear which content is from the official program and which is a recording of a random podcaster on a small self-organized stage
- media.ccc.de does show track and room the event was in, isn't this enough?
- who will decide whats "official", then? what even is the difference?
- media.ccc.de does show track and room the event was in, isn't this enough?
- Great to have at least one youth lecture, should be some more next year
- All the (self-organised) sessions by Relationship Geeks have been a more than welcome addition to the programme
Stages
- Please turn around stage "HUFF" to face the other way. The way it (and it's loundspeakers) were set up it was hard to concentrate in nearby parts of hall H from "acoustic tempest". (In Leipzig I believe there were similar problems.)
Heaven / Angels
- Angel food queue was massive, maybe reintroduce food voucher system next year?
- Extra bun/fruit rations for angels in more isolated locations or specially set aside for different shift types instead of an open fridge for everyone.
- During my shifts, I encountered many people who only spoke English. They have all had difficulties when the Standby Shift Coordinators only speak in German or when little things like the gloves in the LOC are only labeled “sauber” or “dreckig” in German. Perhaps it would be easier to use English by default?
- For some reason there was no tea at all at Heaven, which is a first for me in 7 years of congress - please reintroduce tea bags or something alike to the coffee and hot water tables 🙏
- There never were buns available once I looked for some
- Angel water was great
- water was hard to locate once teardown started
- Would love more information and more commitments regarding buildup/teardown assistance
- Signal angels (or whatever the angels who introduce sessions and speakers are called) often spoke only German, even before/after English sessions. Instructions such as "please leave the room quickly" should be given in both languages.
- you probably mean the heralds that are on stage, signal angels are monitoring online questions and asking them at the Q&A
- Felt like there were way less Angle shirts than in the last years/CCCamp
- It was so nice that angels brought food to other angels in the night shift! <3
Hell / Devils
- Many "angels" fell during the event, but there was no place for them.
- I feel more comfortable with devils.
General
- This year I was shocked by the stealing. I interacted with a handful of people who just didn’t get “the vibe”, i wonder how they got their tickets and why they came, since they didn’t fit in at all. Very weird feeling.
- This started in Leipzig, as the event got bigger and sadly, we probably will never loose it again. There are to many visitors now, that just come as "explorers" and do not align with the values of our community. I also noticed SO MANY people taking pictures and violating the policy. Reported a bunch of pics on Instagram and actually don’t want to know how many pics and vids are out there. I wish the photo policy was strictly no pictures at all, besides official press angels. If there is like 100 people in the pic I bet all of my money you didn’t ask no one for consent.
- maybe it is time for less connewitz
- Having the club outside the actual venue was shitty, but whatever. More space for assemblies is also cool. Otherwise I’m super impressed with all the art and work put into making this event possible. Thanks to all of you ;) see you @ 39c3 [celi]
- Air quality was noticeably worse than last time. Dry but full of fog at the same time, I often had a sore throat and not for covid reasons. Is there still tuning headroom in the air exchange system? (If I don't get covid after this, I'll however admit it was probably worth the dry air)
- The area around heaven was way too hot most of the time
- Air quality at least in hall 4 was ok but the relativ humidity was with about 35% very low. I think this is not a problem for a normal congress but for a 4/24 it seems to be.
- constantly changing path to Radisson hotel and lounge was very bad. Especially the long way around the hotel with t-shirt
- A large big sign with the floor number in front of each escalator would have made my life easier
- Heralds: it's nice that people introduce speakers. Some heralds, however, use the stage for their own presentation. Please keep it simple, just introduce speakers and leave. Also, there is no need to ask the crowd to clap over and over again. Please just not do that.
Awareness / Schiedsstelle
- The annual CCC year-in-review talk (Jahresrückblick) was interrupted by a group of protesters calling themselves "Keine Show für Täter" (No Show for Abusers). They displayed a banner saying "Believe the Victims" and chanted "CCC - Protectors of the Abusers." Security had to escort them off the stage. After the talk, the CCC's own hired all-female security team (CrewCrew) chose to support the protesters, inviting them back on stage to share their statement about the CCC's inadequate measures to protect victims of sexual violence while shielding perpetrators. I'm not part of the group, but based on my own experience facing harassment at a CCC event, and subsequent interaction with the awareness team and arbitration board, I completely agree with what they said and admire their actions. I've archived the stream in case it doesn't make the final cut onto media.ccc.de and added English subtitles to make it accessible to attendees who don't speak German. Part 1: https://dalek.zone/w/c9Jgxc29JhbTvcPqxkjtpa Part 2: https://dalek.zone/w/1R65pfodC6HSqgEAmNseXt Full statement from the group: https://www.instagram.com/keineshowfuertaeter_hamburg/p/DEISVlyMSCk/ -- Anonymous
- it will be available on media.ccc.de
- this was not the first time something like this happened, an probably not the last time. we will have to deal with it.
- it will be available on media.ccc.de
- Das ist nicht das Niveau, das ich von diesem Kongress erwarte. Das maskierte Leute die Bühne stürmen und sehr gewaltätig wirken ist schon etwas heftig. Wenn sich das Event auf den Komiker bezieht: Es gab ein Gerichtsverfahren mit einer klaren Entscheidung. Wird jetzt die Rechtsprechung in die Hand von Twittermobs gelegt?
- das Verherrlichen der Gewaltbereitchaft im Chor wirkte auch nicht einladend
- Willingness of violence?? In what world do you live in? Anyways, this is not about one single case, it is about multiple cases where the CCC appeared to not respond appropriately to cases of sexual abuse. It is extremely important to talk about these issues, and I am very glad that these people have the courage to fight for these issues. CCC needs to look into this immedietly and seriously work on their methodology. For the victims, but also for the future of the congress. Being a real safe space is not easy, but it is important!!
- i prefer a safe space for compute people without blackclad self-righteous paramilitaries
- what the fuck
- i prefer a safe space for compute people without blackclad self-righteous paramilitaries
- Willingness of violence?? In what world do you live in? Anyways, this is not about one single case, it is about multiple cases where the CCC appeared to not respond appropriately to cases of sexual abuse. It is extremely important to talk about these issues, and I am very glad that these people have the courage to fight for these issues. CCC needs to look into this immedietly and seriously work on their methodology. For the victims, but also for the future of the congress. Being a real safe space is not easy, but it is important!!
- aus gutem Grund muss ein sehr hohes Niveau an Beweisen vorliegen, bevor der Staat Menschen wegsperren oder andere Strafen verhängen kann. Bloß weil ein Gericht auf eine bestimmte Art geurteilt hat, heißt das nicht, dass diese Entscheidung bindend für die Allgemeinheit ist. Davon abgesehen gibt es auch viele Cerhaltensweisen, die rein rechtlich zwar nicht strafbar sind, die aber moralisch dennoch verwerflich sind und dazu führen, dass Menschen sich unwohl fühlen. Und ein Verein, der Veranstaltungen ausführt, darf durchaus andere Maßstäbe anlegen, sowohl was Beweislast angeht als auch welches Verhalten geduldet wird und welches nicht.
- Es braucht kein "hohes Niveau" an Beweisen. Es genügt die Überzeugung des Gerichts nach freier richterlicher Beweiswürdigung. Und über die mittelbare Drittwirkung der Grundrechte gilt die Unschuldsvermutung auch gegenüber Privatpersonen. Heißt: Wer unschuldige Personen als Täter diffamiert, macht sich selbst strafbar / wird selbst zur Täter*in.
- natürlich braucht es ein hohes Niveau an Beweisen, (mmn unter anderem) deswegen werden auch so wenige Täter rechtskräftig verurteilt in Deutschland: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/report-muenchen/verurteilungen-vergewaltigung-101.html Abgesehen davon, um den Post der Aktivisti zu zitieren (weil anscheinend niemand den hier liest): "[Opfer] entschloss sich nach der Tat Anzeige wegen Vergewaltigung zu erstatten. Die Staatsanwaltschaft entschloss sich das Verfahren einzustellen, da [Opfer] sich "nicht genug" gewehrt hätte. Das vorangegangene "Nein" spielte hier keine Rolle." Diese schreckliche rumdiskutiererei die ich hier schon wieder lese zeigt doch klar auf, was für ein riesiges Problem in dieser Community immer noch existiert. Nehmt endlich betroffene sexualisierter Gewalt ernst, wieso fällt euch das so schwer?
- deine Schilderung bestätigt doch, dass es kein Problem mit den Beweisen gab, sondern mit der Beweiswürdigung.
- natürlich braucht es ein hohes Niveau an Beweisen, (mmn unter anderem) deswegen werden auch so wenige Täter rechtskräftig verurteilt in Deutschland: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/report-muenchen/verurteilungen-vergewaltigung-101.html Abgesehen davon, um den Post der Aktivisti zu zitieren (weil anscheinend niemand den hier liest): "[Opfer] entschloss sich nach der Tat Anzeige wegen Vergewaltigung zu erstatten. Die Staatsanwaltschaft entschloss sich das Verfahren einzustellen, da [Opfer] sich "nicht genug" gewehrt hätte. Das vorangegangene "Nein" spielte hier keine Rolle." Diese schreckliche rumdiskutiererei die ich hier schon wieder lese zeigt doch klar auf, was für ein riesiges Problem in dieser Community immer noch existiert. Nehmt endlich betroffene sexualisierter Gewalt ernst, wieso fällt euch das so schwer?
- Es braucht kein "hohes Niveau" an Beweisen. Es genügt die Überzeugung des Gerichts nach freier richterlicher Beweiswürdigung. Und über die mittelbare Drittwirkung der Grundrechte gilt die Unschuldsvermutung auch gegenüber Privatpersonen. Heißt: Wer unschuldige Personen als Täter diffamiert, macht sich selbst strafbar / wird selbst zur Täter*in.
- das Verherrlichen der Gewaltbereitchaft im Chor wirkte auch nicht einladend
- I just wonder who does not believe the victims? Does not seem to me that Schiedsstelle is ignoring them
Network
- Were unable to connect with my phone (Samsung Note 3, 802.11ac) to the WLAN during the whole congress, never experienced this with this phone so far. Met a few other people who also were unable to connect to the WLAN.
- Had the same with a fairly old "GSM/ WLAN+SIP" handset I wanted to use, could not connecto to 38c3-open. The handset was a "Pirelli DP-L10", which also has problems on some other "new" WLAN networks. It can do WPA and WPA2, but it does not work on all WiFis supporting this.
Maybe next time there can be a "compatibility WiFi for old devices" (maybe with a firewall in this case like the "outboundonly" 38c3 wifi, since old devices tend to not have security updates), too? -- People bring there old devices, also to hack around.
- Had the same with a fairly old "GSM/ WLAN+SIP" handset I wanted to use, could not connecto to 38c3-open. The handset was a "Pirelli DP-L10", which also has problems on some other "new" WLAN networks. It can do WPA and WPA2, but it does not work on all WiFis supporting this.
- WiFi was very spotty around the entire event until Day 3/4 and barely worked at all in crowded rooms (= could not use live audio translations for German talks)
Toilets
- The toilets were clean all the time, that's great!
- having only unisex rooms might not be optimal, since some people would prefer or even require a safe space for FLINTA* people. If they situation permits, one dedicated FLINTA* toilet room would be great.
- most visitors think, that gendered toilets are nonsense anyways...
- There were (as always) gendered toilets, though I don't know how discoverable they were. I definitely walked past some.
- apparently some of the signs were changed during congress (removing the gendered sign and make it all-gender again) without speaking to anyone, but some gendered toilets did exist. Maybe make them discoverable through c3nav?
- they were discoverable through c3nav. There were location groups for basically all combinations of genders, including "for (wo)men only", "for all genders" and "for FLINTA" only.
- (almost) no period products
Temperature, noise, air quality
- Hall H was too warm during the day and ok late at night. maybe this is just my perception, I didn't measure it.
- Also - while yes, lasers are cool - please loose the artificial smoke in hall H, there are peaople whose breathing it makes harder.
- Generally, all opportunities for ventilation should be used. E.g. in the hallways with the waiting line for merch on day 2 the air was really stale.
- The House of Tea was too noisy, perhaps a different space arrangement could solve the issue next time?
- Hackcenter / ChaosWest / Saal3 was well ventilated and civil
- Saal Glitch (and Zigzag to a lesser degree) was getting really hot after back-to-back talks
Self-censorship and de-politicization
- see https://events.ccc.de/congress/2024/hub/de/event/lets-talk-about-the-not-talking-about-gaza/
- Some people spread disturbing stickers that depicted a tank with the phrase "defend Israel". Being in the same space as someone advocating for genocide made me feel extremely unsafe.
Späti
- The beer was too cold...?
- The mate was too warm :\
- Späti sold used, rechargable batteries for 2,00€ per piece, that was a bit steep, i think.
Self Organised Sessions
- the shift to the right and control mania has also arrived at CCCs OCs.
Didn't like the no filming policy for Self organised events. what is ccc afraid of?
- no, this is not a case of "moving to the right". The rooms in which self organized sessions were held simply didn't have any video equipment. Also, a lot of self organized sessions would not want to be filmed.